Ghost Encounters in the Jones Visual Arts Center
Title
Ghost Encounters in the Jones Visual Arts Center
Subject
Centre College (Danville, Ky. : 1918- )—Anecdotes
Centre College (Danville, Ky. : 1918- )—Buildings
Centre College (Danville, Ky. : 1918- )—History
Centre College (Danville, Ky. : 1918- )—Students
Ghosts—Kentucky—Danville
Haunted places—Kentucky—Danville
Haunted universities and colleges—Kentucky—Danville
Centre College (Danville, Ky. : 1918- )—Buildings
Centre College (Danville, Ky. : 1918- )—History
Centre College (Danville, Ky. : 1918- )—Students
Ghosts—Kentucky—Danville
Haunted places—Kentucky—Danville
Haunted universities and colleges—Kentucky—Danville
Description
An investigation into paranormal activity at the Jones Visual Arts Center (JVAC) on Centre College's campus which features an oral history interview with a college professor.
Creator
Jefferson, Lee
Date
2021_01_19
Contributor
Dingle, Richard
Rights
All Rights Reserved
Format
MP4
Language
English
Type
Oral history (literary work)
Interviewer
Dingle, Richard
Interviewee
Jefferson, Lee
Location
Jones Visual Arts Center, Centre College, Danville, KY
Crounse Hall, Centre College, Danville, KY
Transcription
Noel Dingle [00:00:00] All right.
Noel Dingle [00:00:05] All right, it says it's recording on my screen, so. . .
Lee Jefferson [00:00:09] Okay, I see the little red button. Yeah. Okay, so I think you should be good.
Noel Dingle [00:00:14] All right.
Noel Dingle [00:00:17] I'll start with the opening statement. Hello, my name is Noel Dingle. And today I'm here with Dr. Lee Jefferson, who is a professor of religion at Centre College. I'm here with only Dr. Jefferson and myself. Today is January the 19th, 2021. We're recording this interview on Zoom. I'm here at Centre College and Dr. Jefferson you're at your residence, I presume?
Lee Jefferson [00:00:41] Yeah, I'm in my kitchen, in my home making bacon, so that's what I'm doing. [Laughing]
Noel Dingle [00:00:47] Sounds great.
Noel Dingle [00:00:49] Today, we will be discussing Dr. Jefferson's views and experiences with the supernatural during his time here at the Centre. So, good to see you Dr. Jefferson. Thank you for taking the time to be here.
Lee Jefferson [00:01:00] Absolutely.
Noel Dingle [00:01:02] We can start off early. How long have you worked at Centre College?
Lee Jefferson [00:01:07] I've been at Centre since 2008. So let's see, this would be my 14th year teaching at the college. Yeah.
Noel Dingle [00:01:22] That's very good. And so off that, where are the places that you've frequented the most at your time at Centre? Where do you like to teach? Where is your office located, and are there any other buildings you frequently visit?
Lee Jefferson [00:01:39] I would say like the most, the most frequent buildings I go to are Crounse because my office is there, and I do kind of teach in those classrooms like 313, because they're kind of bigger. Then Young, the first floor of Young is currently a frequent place, but I've also taught in Grant. But I did teach, one of the first buildings that I taught in. . . . Because, you know, from taking classes with me I like to show images, is JVAC: the art barn. Because the classroom there--at least I mean, this is like 2008-9-- it had this huge-like projector. And so, we project basically on the wall of the classroom. And so, if you wanted to show images it was like, it was great. That's why a lot of the art history classes are in there. So, I would normally teach like a humanities class, or a religion class in there the first couple of years I've taught. I have not been back there in a couple of years, but I really like that building. It's a building that students don't really--I mean, unless you have a class there--you probably don't go there.
Noel Dingle [00:02:50] Yeah, I haven't been there much.
Lee Jefferson [00:02:52] Yeah. Like if you don't have like a studio art class or glassblowing or. . . . But it's, it's really unique. It's actually pretty cool. It's one of my favorite buildings on campus.
Noel Dingle [00:03:04] All right.
Lee Jefferson [00:03:04] Just because it's like it's rustic, it's all hardwood, it's all I mean, it really is a barn. It's all like hardwood floors, you know, it's creaky. And since we're talking about, like, haunted history, I would usually teach an eight o'clock class there in the fall. And, you know, at eight o'clock--at least on Eastern time--it's pretty dark. And so I'd be the first one there. And it was kind of spooky. [Laughing]
Noel Dingle [00:03:37] Yeah, it looks very modern on the outside, but on the. . . . Like the interior looks much, much older. It's feels much older, too.
Lee Jefferson [00:03:46] Yeah. I mean, the bones of it I think are pretty old. The exterior, I think they probably put up in the early 2000s. And then of course downstairs, if you've been to the glassblowing studio, that's fairly recent, I think. I mean fairly recent like the last maybe 15 years. But they put in that huge furnace for the glass studio. So that part's. . . . That part's probably more recent. But yeah, it's kind of old. I like it because it's one of the buildings on Centre's campus that has, like, some character, you know, like it's different than all the other, you know, kind of red brick dorms that they have. And so I kind of liked it, because it was kind of unique. Now that I'm talking about it I think I need to teach a class in there.
Noel Dingle [00:04:40] Yeah, I would agree. So I'll just go ahead and ask, have you had any strange or unexplained experiences there?
Lee Jefferson [00:04:49] [Laughing] I will say, yeah, I think one time, and since I was talking about it when I was teaching that eight o'clock class. I went in and it was, it was Jones 201. So it's like the first classroom on the left when you walk into the front--the front doors--and there's like a hidden key. It's probably not very safe, secure to get into the classroom. So I'd be the first one there like 7:45. So I'd go in, and it's really dark. And so because there are no windows, right. So that's why it's good for watching, looking at images. So there's no like windows, natural light. So it's kind of a movie theater. So it's very, a lot of creaks when you walk on floorboards in an old wooden barn. And I would constantly like--when I would be in there--I thought I was the only one in the building because of the first. I would think I would be the first one, but I'd hear someone walking down the hall and then I go outside the door, look out, and it was a dark hallway and no one was there. And I go back in and kind of started the computer. And then I'd hear like "creak, creak, creak, creak" [Laughing] like someone was walking. . .
Noel Dingle [00:06:05] Like footsteps?
Lee Jefferson [00:06:05] Like footsteps, exactly. And I thought maybe it was Judith, Professor Jia, or maybe Stephen, but it wasn't. I like walked out and I was the only one in there. And I remember asking, I think it was, it might have been Judith or one of the. . . .Or maybe Ann Silver. She was the. . . . Used to be the librarian. I was like, "Did you come in here like at around eight o'clock? And they're like, "No". So I mean, I'm sure it was just, you know, probably the wind or maybe even like squirrels [Laughing] or something. But it's, it was one of those things that if you believe and if you tend to believe in the supernatural, which I can't entirely discount it, sends a little chill up your spine. So I would always kind of be looking over my shoulder whenever I was going in my classroom from then on [Laughing].
Noel Dingle [00:07:01] Okay, yeah, that does sound interesting. And when was that experience?
Lee Jefferson [00:07:06] That was 2008 and 2009. That was probably 2009, the fall of 2009.
Noel Dingle [00:07:13] Okay, so that was kind of at the beginning of your time here at Centre.
Lee Jefferson [00:07:18] Yes, that's right. That was young, young Dr Jefferson.
Noel Dingle [00:07:24] Okay [Laughing], and then how did young Dr. Jefferson feel about JVAC and Centre's campus after an introductory experience like that?
Lee Jefferson [00:07:37] [Laughing] Um, I never felt unsafe. I never felt like, you know, threatened or anything. I think buildings, you know, all buildings have histories and all buildings have character. And, you know, I think that particular building just has a lot of character. I didn't see it as I was kind of invading like someone's space. I just think, like, you're kind of a guest in these buildings. And they all have kind of like they're distinctive like qualities. And so, they kind of invite you in. So I felt like that was kind of like, you know, even hearing, like, footsteps on the hallway. That was kind of like an invitation. You know, like, "Welcome. Welcome to this unique building". Yeah. [Laughter]
Noel Dingle [00:08:25] Okay, so it seems like that experience went over fairly well with you. It seems like you want to go back to JVAC even, even after hearing those footsteps. What would you say is maybe the most impactful experience you've had that you can't explain, or would that be the one?
Lee Jefferson [00:08:53] I'm trying to think, I mean, something to do with Centre's campus buildings on Centre's campus?
Noel Dingle [00:08:59] Yes.
Lee Jefferson [00:09:00] Yeah. You know, I'm kind of at a disadvantage because I always hear stories about dorms, about the dorms on campus, having ghosts or being haunted. And I never go into dorms, so I don't really have that same type of experience. So I think Jones would probably JVAC would probably be the one, probably the one experience I had that was. . . . That would probably qualify.
Noel Dingle [00:09:26] Okay, and there have been. . . . You've listed a few other places like Young and Crounse. There have been people that have had supernatural experiences there. So. . .
Lee Jefferson [00:09:39] Yeah, I've been in Crounse in my office late at night, late at night occasionally. And, you know, the DPS always turns the lights off. So it's real dark. You hear things on the fourth floor. [Laughing] So at first you think it's a colleague, but then you realize you're alone. So it could be just like, you know, the building settling or something like that. But, yeah, I mean, I think other people have heard things when they're, you know, in Crounse especially kind of late or maybe even. . . . I'll tell you what, another kind of creepy place in Crounse is the basement. Yeah. I mean, kind of, Valkamp, but also my office stairwell that I use all the time is kind of on the back end of Crounse. And so [Laughing], you know, I usually use those stairs to go up to the fourth floor, but also use them to go all the way down to the basement. If I need to go to the CTL, or go to Valkamp, and you know when you go down those stairs, especially as you kind of go down towards the basement, there's like a some type of sewer line or water. You hear like open water, like rushing and towards the basement. Yeah. And I've never really wanted to explore it because I think it's, I think it's a little creepy [Laughing]. So, especially at night when it's kind of dark. So I always try to, like, get in and out pretty quickly.
Noel Dingle [00:11:23] Yeah. So for you it seems like it's all been audio experiences. You've never seen anything with these. . .
Lee Jefferson [00:11:30] I've never had a visual, a visual experience like that. It's mostly, it's yeah. It's been audio, especially in Crounse there's been a lot of. . . . I've and I've experienced it too: temperature. Temperature changes. Where it can be really cold--like abnormally cold--and then really hot. That's kind of unexplained.
Noel Dingle [00:11:58] Yeah.
Lee Jefferson [00:11:59] So it's almost kind of like the building's kind of messing with you.
Noel Dingle [00:12:03] Yeah. Yeah, I know a lot of classic ghost stories like to cite temperature changes too. And so I'd like to ask, have you ever considered that what you encountered in JVAC might be a ghost? And what is your thoughts on ghosts and ghost stories?
Lee Jefferson [00:12:23] [Laughing] I like to entertain the idea of ghosts. I mean, I think they give kind of enrichment to spaces, especially at institutions, if it's a college campus, a school, or a hospital. So, I'm not going to say I don't believe in ghosts. I like to entertain the possibility. Like I said, it could be like. . . . I think buildings do have kind of character. I think they have kind of like lives of their own, just like trees do. And those little things give it character. And I think a lot of those experiences people have are kind of like an invitation to kind of explore the building, know its history, kind of like get to know it a little bit. So you can call it a ghost, you can call it supernatural, but I think all of those kind of experiences for someone to kind of have an encounter with the space itself and kind of get to know it, which may be the whole purpose.
Noel Dingle [00:13:31] Yeah. Yeah, I know what you mean. So would you say. . . . Would you agree with the statement that each building at Centre kind of has its own character, or the campus itself has its own character?
Lee Jefferson [00:13:46] I would say each building. Absolutely. I think each building has, like Breck may have a different, but someone may have a different experience in Breck and. . . . Or you might have, I mean you're by yourself in Brockman and you're taking this class. Do you hear things? [Laughing]
Noel Dingle [00:14:02] Yeah. That's what I was thinking. This is the perfect time for a ghost to come and haunt me if it wants to.
Lee Jefferson [00:14:10] [Laughing] Exactly.
Noel Dingle [00:14:10] I'm all alone in my Brockman, but nothing yet for me. Nothing yet.
Lee Jefferson [00:14:17] [Laughing] Just wait. You still got a week and a half left, so. . .
Noel Dingle [00:14:19] It would be interesting. I'd love to share it too. So kind of transitioning here, one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you specifically is because you are a professor of religion and I feel our class has kind of intersected in the idea of the belief in the supernatural, kind of intersects with religion in some places, and people can get confused about where to draw a line between the supernatural, like these ghost stories we're talking about, and then also religious belief. So how would you distinguish between the two?
Lee Jefferson [00:15:01] Between, say, like just the supernatural--like occurrence--and then whether that could be like a religious phenomenon, is that what you mean?
Noel Dingle [00:15:07] Yeah.
Lee Jefferson [00:15:12] I think it has to do with the person. I mean, if a person is having these kind of encounters and is kind of steeped in their religious tradition, then they may view it through the filter of their own religion. So, for example, if someone is a staunch evangelical Christian and, you know, kind of sees this as maybe a divine occurrence, that's reading it through the prism of their own experience. So I think it has to do with the individual. I think they experiences themselves. . . . It really depends on who the viewer is and what kind of baggage, or not, or religious baggage or not that they bring to it. For me at least, whenever I've had any type of what anyone could try to caricature as a supernatural occurrence, I try to view it in the context in which it happens. I mean, if it happens on Centre's campus, it happens in a particular place, like in a building. So, for example, in Jones, it happens in an art barn that has kind of like a character to it, a history. It's wood, it's hard wood. It was repurposed from one kind of like a, you know, tobacco barn is what I think it started out as, now to kind of the celebration of the arts. I think you have to kind of see what's going on and it's actual context. So I don't view it as like, you know, any type of religious occurrence. I see it more as like a. . . . Especially for your class, a historical occurrence. I mean, that's one good thing I think you're kind of probably going to learn with Dr. Egge is these things have like a history, and it kind of beckons one to kind of explore the history when you have an experience like that.
Noel Dingle [00:17:11] Yeah. Yeah, that's actually what our last reading is kind of touching on, exploring history through this lens of ghosts. So my last question, we'll go stick with the supernatural. I was wondering if you think it serves any purpose in the supernatural belief, does it serve a purpose to modern religion? Because I know, I watch. . . . I see all these movies and, you know, the scary movies. They like to portray ghosts as demons, or maybe. . .
Lee Jefferson [00:17:49] Oh yeah [Laughing].
Noel Dingle [00:17:49] Satan coming to get you.
Lee Jefferson [00:17:51] Right. [Laughing]
Noel Dingle [00:17:53] What's going on there? Why is this so popular?
Lee Jefferson [00:17:57] Well, there's a long tradition and especially in and, you know, Christianity and Judaism and other you know, even Native American religions where like the fear of punishment, of the, you know, the fear of death. First of all, I mean, all of these kind of streamlined through like the prism of the fear of death because no one knows what happens to you when you die. So do you live on or are you walking the earth as a ghost. But really, the demonic I mean, that really has a long tradition of trying to scare people into disciplinary behavior and the religion itself. So, you know, if you have these, like, movies about exorcism and satanic possession, it's kind of meant to encourage one like, "Well, I should probably go to church, [Laughing] or try to do the things the you know, the priest says or, you know, kind of go into this building and see what they say. So there's like a long tradition of that I think, and that comes out in pop culture films, like that too. But since you mentioned Bly Manor, I think a lot of recent movies that deal with ghosts and the supernatural have a little bit to do with religion and that kind of fear of death. But a lot of them, especially Bly Manor, it was really about how do we grieve the departure of someone who died, you know. How do we let go, and how do we acknowledge that? And I thought that series definitely kind of encouraged that idea of like. . . . It was really about how do we deal with grief of something so horrible as someone dying. So, I think that kind of crosses religious boundaries.
Noel Dingle [00:19:53] Yeah. Yeah, I think so too. So, yeah, maybe the ghost stories that we're all hearing at Centre is making us better students, more disciplined.
Lee Jefferson [00:20:05] [Laughing] I think so. Maybe it's. . . . Yeah, it's encouraging you, I think [Laughing].
Noel Dingle [00:20:11] Sounds good, I think. I think this is good. We've. . . . I've covered all the questions I wanted to cover. So once again, thank you for being here, Dr. Jefferson. Thank you for taking the time.
Lee Jefferson [00:20:24] No problem.
Lee Jefferson [00:20:26] Do you need any? If you want to do a follow up, just let me know. And if the recording doesn't work, we can always do it again.
Noel Dingle [00:20:34] Sounds good.
END OF INTERVIEW
Noel Dingle [00:00:05] All right, it says it's recording on my screen, so. . .
Lee Jefferson [00:00:09] Okay, I see the little red button. Yeah. Okay, so I think you should be good.
Noel Dingle [00:00:14] All right.
Noel Dingle [00:00:17] I'll start with the opening statement. Hello, my name is Noel Dingle. And today I'm here with Dr. Lee Jefferson, who is a professor of religion at Centre College. I'm here with only Dr. Jefferson and myself. Today is January the 19th, 2021. We're recording this interview on Zoom. I'm here at Centre College and Dr. Jefferson you're at your residence, I presume?
Lee Jefferson [00:00:41] Yeah, I'm in my kitchen, in my home making bacon, so that's what I'm doing. [Laughing]
Noel Dingle [00:00:47] Sounds great.
Noel Dingle [00:00:49] Today, we will be discussing Dr. Jefferson's views and experiences with the supernatural during his time here at the Centre. So, good to see you Dr. Jefferson. Thank you for taking the time to be here.
Lee Jefferson [00:01:00] Absolutely.
Noel Dingle [00:01:02] We can start off early. How long have you worked at Centre College?
Lee Jefferson [00:01:07] I've been at Centre since 2008. So let's see, this would be my 14th year teaching at the college. Yeah.
Noel Dingle [00:01:22] That's very good. And so off that, where are the places that you've frequented the most at your time at Centre? Where do you like to teach? Where is your office located, and are there any other buildings you frequently visit?
Lee Jefferson [00:01:39] I would say like the most, the most frequent buildings I go to are Crounse because my office is there, and I do kind of teach in those classrooms like 313, because they're kind of bigger. Then Young, the first floor of Young is currently a frequent place, but I've also taught in Grant. But I did teach, one of the first buildings that I taught in. . . . Because, you know, from taking classes with me I like to show images, is JVAC: the art barn. Because the classroom there--at least I mean, this is like 2008-9-- it had this huge-like projector. And so, we project basically on the wall of the classroom. And so, if you wanted to show images it was like, it was great. That's why a lot of the art history classes are in there. So, I would normally teach like a humanities class, or a religion class in there the first couple of years I've taught. I have not been back there in a couple of years, but I really like that building. It's a building that students don't really--I mean, unless you have a class there--you probably don't go there.
Noel Dingle [00:02:50] Yeah, I haven't been there much.
Lee Jefferson [00:02:52] Yeah. Like if you don't have like a studio art class or glassblowing or. . . . But it's, it's really unique. It's actually pretty cool. It's one of my favorite buildings on campus.
Noel Dingle [00:03:04] All right.
Lee Jefferson [00:03:04] Just because it's like it's rustic, it's all hardwood, it's all I mean, it really is a barn. It's all like hardwood floors, you know, it's creaky. And since we're talking about, like, haunted history, I would usually teach an eight o'clock class there in the fall. And, you know, at eight o'clock--at least on Eastern time--it's pretty dark. And so I'd be the first one there. And it was kind of spooky. [Laughing]
Noel Dingle [00:03:37] Yeah, it looks very modern on the outside, but on the. . . . Like the interior looks much, much older. It's feels much older, too.
Lee Jefferson [00:03:46] Yeah. I mean, the bones of it I think are pretty old. The exterior, I think they probably put up in the early 2000s. And then of course downstairs, if you've been to the glassblowing studio, that's fairly recent, I think. I mean fairly recent like the last maybe 15 years. But they put in that huge furnace for the glass studio. So that part's. . . . That part's probably more recent. But yeah, it's kind of old. I like it because it's one of the buildings on Centre's campus that has, like, some character, you know, like it's different than all the other, you know, kind of red brick dorms that they have. And so I kind of liked it, because it was kind of unique. Now that I'm talking about it I think I need to teach a class in there.
Noel Dingle [00:04:40] Yeah, I would agree. So I'll just go ahead and ask, have you had any strange or unexplained experiences there?
Lee Jefferson [00:04:49] [Laughing] I will say, yeah, I think one time, and since I was talking about it when I was teaching that eight o'clock class. I went in and it was, it was Jones 201. So it's like the first classroom on the left when you walk into the front--the front doors--and there's like a hidden key. It's probably not very safe, secure to get into the classroom. So I'd be the first one there like 7:45. So I'd go in, and it's really dark. And so because there are no windows, right. So that's why it's good for watching, looking at images. So there's no like windows, natural light. So it's kind of a movie theater. So it's very, a lot of creaks when you walk on floorboards in an old wooden barn. And I would constantly like--when I would be in there--I thought I was the only one in the building because of the first. I would think I would be the first one, but I'd hear someone walking down the hall and then I go outside the door, look out, and it was a dark hallway and no one was there. And I go back in and kind of started the computer. And then I'd hear like "creak, creak, creak, creak" [Laughing] like someone was walking. . .
Noel Dingle [00:06:05] Like footsteps?
Lee Jefferson [00:06:05] Like footsteps, exactly. And I thought maybe it was Judith, Professor Jia, or maybe Stephen, but it wasn't. I like walked out and I was the only one in there. And I remember asking, I think it was, it might have been Judith or one of the. . . .Or maybe Ann Silver. She was the. . . . Used to be the librarian. I was like, "Did you come in here like at around eight o'clock? And they're like, "No". So I mean, I'm sure it was just, you know, probably the wind or maybe even like squirrels [Laughing] or something. But it's, it was one of those things that if you believe and if you tend to believe in the supernatural, which I can't entirely discount it, sends a little chill up your spine. So I would always kind of be looking over my shoulder whenever I was going in my classroom from then on [Laughing].
Noel Dingle [00:07:01] Okay, yeah, that does sound interesting. And when was that experience?
Lee Jefferson [00:07:06] That was 2008 and 2009. That was probably 2009, the fall of 2009.
Noel Dingle [00:07:13] Okay, so that was kind of at the beginning of your time here at Centre.
Lee Jefferson [00:07:18] Yes, that's right. That was young, young Dr Jefferson.
Noel Dingle [00:07:24] Okay [Laughing], and then how did young Dr. Jefferson feel about JVAC and Centre's campus after an introductory experience like that?
Lee Jefferson [00:07:37] [Laughing] Um, I never felt unsafe. I never felt like, you know, threatened or anything. I think buildings, you know, all buildings have histories and all buildings have character. And, you know, I think that particular building just has a lot of character. I didn't see it as I was kind of invading like someone's space. I just think, like, you're kind of a guest in these buildings. And they all have kind of like they're distinctive like qualities. And so, they kind of invite you in. So I felt like that was kind of like, you know, even hearing, like, footsteps on the hallway. That was kind of like an invitation. You know, like, "Welcome. Welcome to this unique building". Yeah. [Laughter]
Noel Dingle [00:08:25] Okay, so it seems like that experience went over fairly well with you. It seems like you want to go back to JVAC even, even after hearing those footsteps. What would you say is maybe the most impactful experience you've had that you can't explain, or would that be the one?
Lee Jefferson [00:08:53] I'm trying to think, I mean, something to do with Centre's campus buildings on Centre's campus?
Noel Dingle [00:08:59] Yes.
Lee Jefferson [00:09:00] Yeah. You know, I'm kind of at a disadvantage because I always hear stories about dorms, about the dorms on campus, having ghosts or being haunted. And I never go into dorms, so I don't really have that same type of experience. So I think Jones would probably JVAC would probably be the one, probably the one experience I had that was. . . . That would probably qualify.
Noel Dingle [00:09:26] Okay, and there have been. . . . You've listed a few other places like Young and Crounse. There have been people that have had supernatural experiences there. So. . .
Lee Jefferson [00:09:39] Yeah, I've been in Crounse in my office late at night, late at night occasionally. And, you know, the DPS always turns the lights off. So it's real dark. You hear things on the fourth floor. [Laughing] So at first you think it's a colleague, but then you realize you're alone. So it could be just like, you know, the building settling or something like that. But, yeah, I mean, I think other people have heard things when they're, you know, in Crounse especially kind of late or maybe even. . . . I'll tell you what, another kind of creepy place in Crounse is the basement. Yeah. I mean, kind of, Valkamp, but also my office stairwell that I use all the time is kind of on the back end of Crounse. And so [Laughing], you know, I usually use those stairs to go up to the fourth floor, but also use them to go all the way down to the basement. If I need to go to the CTL, or go to Valkamp, and you know when you go down those stairs, especially as you kind of go down towards the basement, there's like a some type of sewer line or water. You hear like open water, like rushing and towards the basement. Yeah. And I've never really wanted to explore it because I think it's, I think it's a little creepy [Laughing]. So, especially at night when it's kind of dark. So I always try to, like, get in and out pretty quickly.
Noel Dingle [00:11:23] Yeah. So for you it seems like it's all been audio experiences. You've never seen anything with these. . .
Lee Jefferson [00:11:30] I've never had a visual, a visual experience like that. It's mostly, it's yeah. It's been audio, especially in Crounse there's been a lot of. . . . I've and I've experienced it too: temperature. Temperature changes. Where it can be really cold--like abnormally cold--and then really hot. That's kind of unexplained.
Noel Dingle [00:11:58] Yeah.
Lee Jefferson [00:11:59] So it's almost kind of like the building's kind of messing with you.
Noel Dingle [00:12:03] Yeah. Yeah, I know a lot of classic ghost stories like to cite temperature changes too. And so I'd like to ask, have you ever considered that what you encountered in JVAC might be a ghost? And what is your thoughts on ghosts and ghost stories?
Lee Jefferson [00:12:23] [Laughing] I like to entertain the idea of ghosts. I mean, I think they give kind of enrichment to spaces, especially at institutions, if it's a college campus, a school, or a hospital. So, I'm not going to say I don't believe in ghosts. I like to entertain the possibility. Like I said, it could be like. . . . I think buildings do have kind of character. I think they have kind of like lives of their own, just like trees do. And those little things give it character. And I think a lot of those experiences people have are kind of like an invitation to kind of explore the building, know its history, kind of like get to know it a little bit. So you can call it a ghost, you can call it supernatural, but I think all of those kind of experiences for someone to kind of have an encounter with the space itself and kind of get to know it, which may be the whole purpose.
Noel Dingle [00:13:31] Yeah. Yeah, I know what you mean. So would you say. . . . Would you agree with the statement that each building at Centre kind of has its own character, or the campus itself has its own character?
Lee Jefferson [00:13:46] I would say each building. Absolutely. I think each building has, like Breck may have a different, but someone may have a different experience in Breck and. . . . Or you might have, I mean you're by yourself in Brockman and you're taking this class. Do you hear things? [Laughing]
Noel Dingle [00:14:02] Yeah. That's what I was thinking. This is the perfect time for a ghost to come and haunt me if it wants to.
Lee Jefferson [00:14:10] [Laughing] Exactly.
Noel Dingle [00:14:10] I'm all alone in my Brockman, but nothing yet for me. Nothing yet.
Lee Jefferson [00:14:17] [Laughing] Just wait. You still got a week and a half left, so. . .
Noel Dingle [00:14:19] It would be interesting. I'd love to share it too. So kind of transitioning here, one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you specifically is because you are a professor of religion and I feel our class has kind of intersected in the idea of the belief in the supernatural, kind of intersects with religion in some places, and people can get confused about where to draw a line between the supernatural, like these ghost stories we're talking about, and then also religious belief. So how would you distinguish between the two?
Lee Jefferson [00:15:01] Between, say, like just the supernatural--like occurrence--and then whether that could be like a religious phenomenon, is that what you mean?
Noel Dingle [00:15:07] Yeah.
Lee Jefferson [00:15:12] I think it has to do with the person. I mean, if a person is having these kind of encounters and is kind of steeped in their religious tradition, then they may view it through the filter of their own religion. So, for example, if someone is a staunch evangelical Christian and, you know, kind of sees this as maybe a divine occurrence, that's reading it through the prism of their own experience. So I think it has to do with the individual. I think they experiences themselves. . . . It really depends on who the viewer is and what kind of baggage, or not, or religious baggage or not that they bring to it. For me at least, whenever I've had any type of what anyone could try to caricature as a supernatural occurrence, I try to view it in the context in which it happens. I mean, if it happens on Centre's campus, it happens in a particular place, like in a building. So, for example, in Jones, it happens in an art barn that has kind of like a character to it, a history. It's wood, it's hard wood. It was repurposed from one kind of like a, you know, tobacco barn is what I think it started out as, now to kind of the celebration of the arts. I think you have to kind of see what's going on and it's actual context. So I don't view it as like, you know, any type of religious occurrence. I see it more as like a. . . . Especially for your class, a historical occurrence. I mean, that's one good thing I think you're kind of probably going to learn with Dr. Egge is these things have like a history, and it kind of beckons one to kind of explore the history when you have an experience like that.
Noel Dingle [00:17:11] Yeah. Yeah, that's actually what our last reading is kind of touching on, exploring history through this lens of ghosts. So my last question, we'll go stick with the supernatural. I was wondering if you think it serves any purpose in the supernatural belief, does it serve a purpose to modern religion? Because I know, I watch. . . . I see all these movies and, you know, the scary movies. They like to portray ghosts as demons, or maybe. . .
Lee Jefferson [00:17:49] Oh yeah [Laughing].
Noel Dingle [00:17:49] Satan coming to get you.
Lee Jefferson [00:17:51] Right. [Laughing]
Noel Dingle [00:17:53] What's going on there? Why is this so popular?
Lee Jefferson [00:17:57] Well, there's a long tradition and especially in and, you know, Christianity and Judaism and other you know, even Native American religions where like the fear of punishment, of the, you know, the fear of death. First of all, I mean, all of these kind of streamlined through like the prism of the fear of death because no one knows what happens to you when you die. So do you live on or are you walking the earth as a ghost. But really, the demonic I mean, that really has a long tradition of trying to scare people into disciplinary behavior and the religion itself. So, you know, if you have these, like, movies about exorcism and satanic possession, it's kind of meant to encourage one like, "Well, I should probably go to church, [Laughing] or try to do the things the you know, the priest says or, you know, kind of go into this building and see what they say. So there's like a long tradition of that I think, and that comes out in pop culture films, like that too. But since you mentioned Bly Manor, I think a lot of recent movies that deal with ghosts and the supernatural have a little bit to do with religion and that kind of fear of death. But a lot of them, especially Bly Manor, it was really about how do we grieve the departure of someone who died, you know. How do we let go, and how do we acknowledge that? And I thought that series definitely kind of encouraged that idea of like. . . . It was really about how do we deal with grief of something so horrible as someone dying. So, I think that kind of crosses religious boundaries.
Noel Dingle [00:19:53] Yeah. Yeah, I think so too. So, yeah, maybe the ghost stories that we're all hearing at Centre is making us better students, more disciplined.
Lee Jefferson [00:20:05] [Laughing] I think so. Maybe it's. . . . Yeah, it's encouraging you, I think [Laughing].
Noel Dingle [00:20:11] Sounds good, I think. I think this is good. We've. . . . I've covered all the questions I wanted to cover. So once again, thank you for being here, Dr. Jefferson. Thank you for taking the time.
Lee Jefferson [00:20:24] No problem.
Lee Jefferson [00:20:26] Do you need any? If you want to do a follow up, just let me know. And if the recording doesn't work, we can always do it again.
Noel Dingle [00:20:34] Sounds good.
END OF INTERVIEW
Original Format
MP4
Duration
20:35
Citation
Jefferson, Lee, “Ghost Encounters in the Jones Visual Arts Center,” Ghosts at Centre College, accessed May 17, 2024, https://centreghosts.omeka.net/items/show/20.